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Gaits of Gold Gaited Horse Community Messageboard > Gait Discussions > Stop the Soring! > More Good News: No WGC Class, or Big Lick Champ! |
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Gaits of Gold Gaited Horse Community Messageboard > Gait Discussions > Stop the Soring! > More Good News: No WGC Class, or Big Lick Champ! |
| Moderated by: Brenda Im | Page: 1 2   |
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| More Good News: No WGC Class, or Big Lick Champ! | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Sun Sep 3rd, 2006 04:31 pm |
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1st Post |
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Brenda Im Pasture Boss 
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Here's the latest, from THE SHELBYVILLE TIMES GAZETTE: UPDATED: TWHNC ends with no champion Saturday, September 2, 2006 John I. Carney For the first time ever, the Tennessee Walking Horse National Celebration ended without crowning a World Grand Champion. Seven of the 10 horses scheduled to participate in Saturday evening's final class were turned away by inspectors, and the remaining trainers declined to participate, effectively canceling the class. The track was being smoothed in preparation for the final class when announcer Chip Walters came on to announce that decision. "The [trainers] that were left decided that they weren't coming tonight." The crowd roared in support of the trainers. In a year when the U.S. Department of Agriculture inspection process was the focus of controversy, the final two nights of the 68th Annual Celebration were marred by several key classes in which few horses participated, presumably because of issues related to the inspection process. Walters thanked the crowd for its support during a week of crises. "You were patient, you were faithful, you've been that way all week," he said. "We haven't seen some of the horse we've wanted to see. In the World Grand Championship class, we won't see some of the horses we wanted to see either." Walters announced that a number of horses had been turned down by inspectors. With that final announcement, organist Larry Bright launched into his traditional closing number, "Just The Way You Are," and the show was over. The entire story is available here: http://www.t-g.com/story/1166645.html Last edited on Sun Sep 3rd, 2006 04:32 pm by Brenda Im ____________________ Always forgive your enemies. It's good for you - and really messes with their heads! |
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| Posted: Sun Sep 3rd, 2006 07:09 pm |
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2nd Post |
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redwax G.O.G Community Member
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PRAISE THE LORD!!!!
____________________ It is well with my Soul |
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| Posted: Sun Sep 3rd, 2006 08:36 pm |
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3rd Post |
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gaitingal Ranch Hand 
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Why, I do declare! Kinda makes me smile a bit, "bless their hearts"... Amen, --Debbie in GA
____________________ "Wrinkles should merely indicate where smiles have been." - Mark Twain |
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| Posted: Mon Sep 4th, 2006 02:54 am |
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countrygirl G.O.G Community Member 
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But the frustrating part is that the crowd cheered for the trainers. The article makes it sound like a bunch of rabble rousers spoiled the fun for everyone. When will people get it? i1
____________________ Liz |
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| Posted: Mon Sep 4th, 2006 12:33 pm |
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5th Post |
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gaitingal Ranch Hand
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Well, yes... It is still a bunch of "good ol' boys" in a lot of ways. My thoughts are that owners of these high dollar horses will start to rethink their trainers' methods. This should have been a pretty good shake down for everyone involved & I am hoping that the judges take note & begin to put a little more thought into what horses they are placing in the winner's circle & why. Performance enhancing drugs are not allowed in any sport, internal or external. Horses were being banned from the show ring due to evidence that someone had broken laws already in place. I am sure that trainers & owners alike are already trying to develop better ways to disguise their use of performance enhancing training methods & materials/equipment. Change takes time. At first it will just seem like the mean ol' Feds came into an area where they are not welcomed. The mob mentality will continue to fester angrily, but as time rolls on, people will settle down & attempt to think back on things. I do not see Death to The Big Lick Era as an abrupt one. It will die out slowly, but not until there is something else to replace it. For many people, for several generations, there is nothing more exciting than the World Grand Championship at The Celebration in Shelbyville, TN. To go from that extreme a performance down to a natural TWH must be bland & boring, to say the least. So, I am hoping that the events that occurred at The Celebration 2006 has sent a message to all horse people, in all breeds & disciplines. The TWH is not the only group, just the most infamous & obvious. So, change takes time & it will come around as more & more people get active & vocal, both with our government officials & our fellow horse folks. Like a boil that festers, let's all get underneath that boil till the surface erupts, exposing all the evil demons that lurk beneath the surface. Then, may the cleansing begin? --Debbie in GA
____________________ "Wrinkles should merely indicate where smiles have been." - Mark Twain |
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| Posted: Mon Sep 4th, 2006 12:53 pm |
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6th Post |
Hurleycane
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Last edited on Tue Sep 12th, 2006 06:47 pm by |
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| Posted: Tue Sep 5th, 2006 01:53 am |
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twhsandy G.O.G Community Member
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You're right gaitinggal!!!!!! Praise the Lord!!!!!
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| Posted: Tue Sep 5th, 2006 09:14 am |
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8th Post |
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Soliae G.O.G Community Member 
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Make no mistake, though, the Big Lick industry will fight this - and hard - not in the open, but by calls to politicians, lawyers, and other means of attempting to get the USDA off their backs. Their intent is one of two things: to repeal the Horse Protection Act as being an unnecessary strain on taxpayer's dollars, or to set a standard for inspections so low that a cleverly sored horse can easily pass. Their propaganda right now runs on primarily two things, restated in a variety of ways.... "We've cleaned up our act and the inspections are too strict/biased/inconsistant." and my favorite standby "Other horses have bad things happen to them, why pick on us?". Of course, the answer to number two is that two wrongs don't make a right and the answer to number one lies in the USDA studies - clearly, they have NOT cleaned up their act, and if anything, require stricter inspections. Further, most breed organizations do not in any way condone the problems associated with some bad trainers in their breed. They are active and cooperative in ferreting problems out - a distinct difference between what the TWHBEA does, which is provide lip service "We don't support sore horses" but then is constantly trying to have the inspection process minimized - instead of welcoming it, as they would if they TRULY wanted to eradicate soring. I would suggest that people continue sending letters to the Tennessee politicians, Celebration officials, and anyone else you can think of, supporting the USDA's actions. The industry will be fighting very hard - lots of money depends on this - so I encourage everyone to fight back with the only thing that occasionally wins over money and greed - integrity.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11th, 2006 04:19 am |
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Fargos Handmaiden G.O.G Community Member
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Dear Brenda and others here. I knew you all would already be on this, bless your hearts and go, girls and boys!  My other discussion board has quite a thread going on this topic, but I cannot voice my total opinion there because of the # of padded horse owners there and the board rules. Maybe these posts have already been posted here, but they are really good info: http://www.tennessean.com/assets/pdf/DN4007893.PDF http://www.walkinonranch.com/CNN.html Now the complaint on this one raised by the Padded crowd was that it was made in 1988, so here's a recent article: http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1532318,00.html But have your Kleenex box ready when you see what happened to Watchout and his trainer/owners: http://www.walkinonranch.com/Celebration.html At any rate, the subject came up, what to do about all this. Seems now is the time while Goliath (TWBEA) has finally been given a deserved blow. My feelings are: I think #1 to make sure the federal inspectors are doing their jobs and that inspection should not come from inspectors hired by the industry itself. Seems to me that if inspectors are cheating and letting horses through that shouldn't, they should be subjected to the same fines/imprisonment as the perpetrators. And if indeed as someone posted on the other board, that the requirements are being rewritten to allow this kind of behavior, we should be all over them like flies on a watermelon! I hope the dates given for meetings on the Horse Protection site are current for this coming year. If they are, I hope to be at that meeting April 19 to voice my concerns. And I hope those who really want to make a difference would attend their local meetings posted there also. Another thing that people who really are against this is to avoid breeding their mares to these padded stallions and choose a wonderful animal like Watchout and others who obviously have a more natural gait. I don't know why anyone would want to choose a stallion whose gait comes from mechancal devices anyway. Money talks! If these particular stallions aren't getting the stud fees, the show standards should change. Certainly the breeding program should be improved if we did, hopefully bringing the TW back to his former glory as a calm, naturally gaited horse that he was intended to be. Money talks! We can refuse to renew our memberships or abstain from joining the Tennessee Walking Horse Breeders Association, while bombarding them with letters of why and what it will take to get membership flowing again. You're right, there will always be cheaters, but when it becomes this numerous in one discipline, it's time to set an example." One thing I couldn't voice on my other board, my bellief that the very act of putting pads on a horse is in itself "soring." At any rate I put my actions where my mouth is and sent off an e-mail to the TWBEA expressing my deep hope that this experience will redirect the association away from having Padded horse events. I hope everyone here will do the same, attend the local HPA meetings and send letters to the association. Make the letters well-thought out and civil. Old saying, sugar catches more flies than vinegar. OK, I'll get off my soapbox. Connie
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11th, 2006 05:10 am |
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10th Post |
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Fargos Handmaiden G.O.G Community Member
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One thing I forgot. In REWATCHING that old CNN report, it stated that in spite of a university-conducted study that showed pads alone and chains alone did damage to a horse, the Department of Agriculture (who ordered the study) did nothing to ban the use of weighted devices and chains on horses. So I'm going to be looking for a link to send a letter to the Department of Agriculture also and hope everyone here will do the same. OK, I'll shut up now.  Connie
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11th, 2006 05:21 am |
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11th Post |
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Fargos Handmaiden G.O.G Community Member
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Found it. Here's link to US Dept. of Agriculture. http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/!ut/p/_s.7_0_A/7_0_1OB?navtype=MA&navid=CONTACT_US Connie
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11th, 2006 04:50 pm |
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12th Post |
Hurleycane
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Last edited on Tue Sep 12th, 2006 06:47 pm by |
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11th, 2006 05:30 pm |
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13th Post |
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Fargos Handmaiden G.O.G Community Member
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Dear Mary Ann. I need to recheck the HPA page, but if the meeting dates given are for the coming 2007 year, I plan to be at my closest meeting in Dallas, April 17(????). Check the site for dates. I encourage others to be at theirs and politely but firmly state their cases. So far, I have written my feelings about needing to ban padded horses to preserve the breed in the long run to the TWHBEA. You can e-mail them through their site. Based on the 20-yr.-old CNN report, apparently the Dept. of Ag. had a college study they ordered themselves that proved pads and chains alone do damage the horse. I have written to the Dept. of Ag. asking why they have not acted on that info and asking that they do carry through with banning "weighted devices" and "chains" at shows. Anyone wanting to do likewise can e-mail them at http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/!ut/p/_s.7_0_A/7_0_1OB?edeployment_action=changenav&navid=FEEDBACK_FORM. It is important to keep heated emotion out of such letters but rather word them factually and in a polite manner or we'll just be written off as lunatics. Numbers speak, so I hope others here will write as well. I have also forwarded the old link of the CNN tape to 60 Minutes and 20/20. There are still many of us that don't have cable. I asked these two news magazines that in light of the recent upheaval at the Celebration, this story was worthy of an updated version to determine whether or not these practices have improved or gotten worse. We already know the answer but let the news bloodhounds pick up the scent and you got a hunt! I would likewise encourage others here to write these two major news magazines expressing a deep desire to see the subject covered thoroughly. 60m@cbsnews.com;audsvcs@cbs.com (email address) 2020@abc.com (email address) I am posting a similar request and the links I mentioned above at my stable where there are two other Tenn. Walker owners and hopefully other outraged horse owners. I'll be glad to do whatever will help. Suggestions welcome. Connie Last edited on Mon Sep 11th, 2006 06:05 pm by Fargos Handmaiden |
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11th, 2006 05:54 pm |
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14th Post |
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Fargos Handmaiden G.O.G Community Member
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Well, message boards are good, I guess, but I think we need to get our voices out in the community too. Among our TW horse people, seems everyone is lined up already on their preferred side of the "Mason-Dixon line". It's educating the general public and getting "numbers" on our side and people in positions of authority that can make a difference, like the links I listed above. OK, I have mixed emotions about listing that other board. I know some of the monitors and, great people, they really have their hands full, keeping peace between the Padded and the Anti-Padded crowd, so please, if you post there, mark your words carefully. At present, the thread is beginning to deteriorate into personal attacks, as usual. These have been mostly by the Padded crowd because they know it is a sure way to stop the thread. I let myself run in circles trying to answer some of their personal attacks until I figured out what was going on. Now, I plan to ignore them and just keep on keeping on in as polite a manner as I can. Please, your help would be appreciated but resolve to do the same and not let the "turkeys get you down." http://p218.ezboard.com/bgaitedhorsesense Then go to "Around the Campfire" and the thread is No TWH WGC. Connie
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18th, 2006 06:09 pm |
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15th Post |
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DinValid1 G.O.G Community Member
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Did you know that most of the bowed tendon and stifle problems treated by vets in this country are from barrel racers. Please see article in the Walking Horse Report: http://www.walkinghorsereport.com/content.aspx?cid=3874 Quote from above article: "I’ve spoken to two prominent veterinarians in middle Tennessee, Dr. John Bennett, who I mentioned earlier, and Dr. Jim Baum, of Shelbyville, Tennessee. Both men told me they treat very few Walking Horses for lameness or bowed tendons compared to other breeds they treat. Dr. Baum pointed out that the Walking Horses start out with a small shoe and gradually build up to a bigger shoe as the horse ages and their training progresses. Just like any athlete, any show horse or sport horse has the potential for physical ailments." We have been padding TWH for 25 years and I have yet to see one crippled from pads. We had 56 horses in the Celebration over 15. The only reason that I can think of a horse being hurt from pads is if they are shod incorrectly by a farrier that doesn't know what they are doing. You are mistaken if you think getting rid of pads will stop all soring. I've seen far more incidences of soring with a trainer trying to acheive a high stepping gait with a flat shod horse. To me it is more humane to use a pad and chain rather than chemicals. Actually a plantation shoe weighs more than a pad. The pad is mostly made of a hard plastic. I respect wanting to pleasure ride, but I believe the show ring is a necessary part of any breed. I'm sorry but if you want to ban pads you're erradicating the money from the industry. No one is going to pay thousands of dollars for a pleasure horse. There has also been a study saying that pads and chains cause no adverse effects. It's in the TWHBEA literature. Also, someone said that we hire the DQPs. The DQPs are employed by the National Horse Show Commission not the breeders association. There would be fields and fields of lame horses in Shelbyville if what you are claiming is true. I live near Middle Tennessee and have been involved in the industry since I was 5 and have never seen one horse crippled from pads. Pads actually prevent thrush and laminitis. It's funny every pleasure person I see think that padded horses will be crippled by the time they are 5. Why would you spend thousands of dollars on a good padded horse just to ride it for a couple of years. I'm sorry no one is that crazy. He's Puttin on the Ritz was retired this year at the Celebration (1996 WGC) and there is an ad showing him winning at two and at his retirement ceremony at 15. He looked BETTER at 15. Last edited on Mon Sep 18th, 2006 09:08 pm by DinValid1 |
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18th, 2006 09:08 pm |
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16th Post |
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jstarr1444 G.O.G Community Member
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DinValid1 wrote: There has also been a study saying that pads and chains cause no adverse effects. It's in the TWHBEA literature. Please specifically cite this research. I have contacted TWHBEA and USDA and neither have responded. I have contacted everyone that has cited this type of research and no one has been able to give me the reference. I have done this on both sides of the debate. I am aware of the barrel racing research. I've read Wickler's "Energetic and Kinematic Consequences of Weighting the Distal Limb" and am aware they only looked at oxygen consumption and not injury. Could you please give me the author, journal and date of this research? Thanks!!
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18th, 2006 09:41 pm |
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17th Post |
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DinValid1 G.O.G Community Member
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A pad nor a chain is all that heavy. Especially to a large horse. Again I know a lot of pleasure people that ride with a plantation shoe and that is heavier! It was an Auburn University Study I don't have the exacts memorized. The TWHBEA will give you the reference, but I think they are dealing with more pressing matters right now. I'm not going to convince you all that pads are o.k. any more than you can convince me they are not. I just believe what my eyes tell me and that's it. Too many people enjoy the pads for them to disappear. Please remember research done on a quarter horse is not the same. TWHs have been bred for generations to be padded and I believe they are well suited. To be honest, with the QHs large structure and bulkiness they could never handle it. Last edited on Mon Sep 18th, 2006 09:57 pm by DinValid1 |
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18th, 2006 09:55 pm |
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jstarr1444 G.O.G Community Member
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Thanks, maybe I can find it through AU. I appreciate the information.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18th, 2006 09:57 pm |
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19th Post |
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DinValid1 G.O.G Community Member
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No problem, thanks for being so courteous ;) Let me comment on the situation at The Celebration. The three horses that passed should have competed. The fact that the WGC was called off has garnered too much attention! This is putting a very bad light on our breed. I think that the Celebration and the TWHBEA acted admirably in giving the 3 that passed 1st place prize money and the breeders' for taking the stance that the ones that passed should have shown. Here's hoping for a better start at next years Celebration. I would prefer not to have to constantly defend the breed in the future. Last edited on Mon Sep 18th, 2006 11:07 pm by DinValid1 |
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19th, 2006 12:11 am |
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Fargos Handmaiden G.O.G Community Member
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Are you talking about the Auborn University Study ordered by the Department of Agriculture prior to the 1986 CNN Broadcast? If that is the case there is a discrepency in what the Association is reporting that study said and what CNN read in the report from that same study. According to CNN, quoting the Auborn study, "four-inch stacks caused tendonitis and hoof abnormalities and ten-ounce chains caused swelling and liesons within ten days. You can argue that the chains in the shows are now limited to six ounces, but ten ounce and heavier are still used by trainers outside the show ring for training.
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