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Gaits of Gold Gaited Horse Community Messageboard > Brenda Imus Questions and Answers > 'Ask Brenda' > Balking Paso Fino |
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Gaits of Gold Gaited Horse Community Messageboard > Brenda Imus Questions and Answers > 'Ask Brenda' > Balking Paso Fino |
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| Balking Paso Fino | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30th, 2010 06:19 pm |
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1st Post |
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Lakota G.O.G Community Member 
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A good friend of mine recently bought a 6yr. old Paso. It's been about 4or5 weeks since we gelded him and I've been riding him all along. He has a peculiar problem that I'd like to run past all of you to see what your thoughts may be. First off I'm using a standard tree Imus saddle, double Navajo, smooth neoprene cinch, & comfort gait bit. His problem is he will stop, lock up, back up & turn his butt 90 degrees and attempt to back into the ditch (usually there's an Amish barbed wire fence right there!). I can give him his head, kiss, apply spurs (blunt), & spank w/the ends of my reins. Sometimes he'll go forward, often he won't. If I get off and drive him in a few circles each direction, he readily complies. He'll stand well for me to mount and then sometimes he'll walk off & sometimes not. If he's wearing a rope halter & lead I can hand that off to a buddy and he goes w/o any problem, until the next episode. I recently rode around the block (4 miles) by myself and he was calming down, lowering his head giving well the bit, and going at a nice flat walk/slow rack. This horse never bats an eye at traffic (including semi trucks). I felt that we were starting to make some real progress, but just before getting home (within sight of the property) he locked up several times real bad. With completely slack reins I prodded him until he made an effort at some sort of forward movement. That ended up being a leap and then he wouldn't go any farther, just stood there quivering, tight all over. We had several episodes of this. It's like you are beating him to go forward & he thinks as soon as he does he's going to have some torture device come cranking down on his mouth. That's all I can guess him to be thinking. We always start out w/some lungeing to take the edge off, then mount and ride in the corral until he begins to settle and calm down. When he's relaxed we go out to the driveway and as soon as he sees he's out in the open, his head's up & his back is hollow, he's jigging trying to go anywhere but where you want. I'm considerate of his needs, gentle as I can be, firm as I need to be. I don't allow a horse to learn bad habits & am always consistent but this horse just doesn't seem to be getting it and he's good one ride and worse than he's ever been the next. I wonder if he's inbred or just not very smart. We're all wondering what his problem is. He'll 'hand drive' walking next to the saddle holding the reins, but mount up & he won't go. He doesn't show any signs of pain when you get on so I can't imagine his back hurting. It's a head scratcher. He'll come to me in the pasture & seems happy. The owner has not had a chiro out, nor had his teeth checked. I trim his feet myself & he never takes a lame step. We really don't want to give up on this horse but I'm at a loss for how to get some progress. Do any of you have some thoughts here?t2
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30th, 2010 09:05 pm |
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2nd Post |
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whattarack Pasture Boss 
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Have you ridden him along with a cool, calm, and confident horse? Sounds like he's just barn sour or just needing another horse along with him right now. The only other pain issues I can think of would be wolf teeth or just bad teeth, tongueor mouth ulcers?
____________________ A State Trooper pulls over a pickup on Highway 16 And says to the driver, 'Got any I..D ? ' . . and the driver replies 'Bout wut?' Being Offended is Optional. |
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30th, 2010 09:41 pm |
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3rd Post |
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Brenda Im Pasture Boss 
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This is a mystery. Does he act up right out of the barn, or mostly after he's been ridden awhile? If the latter, then I would suspect a pain issue somewhere. He may benefit from the services of a chiro, and/or some deep tissue massage (which you or your friend can do yourselves). Are you sure your saddle has the right width tree for this horse? That might cause problems. I had a horse like this many years ago, but he was a ditz both from the ground and when being ridden - just a bad apple. That doesn't sound like it's necessarily the case here - it sounds like he's trying to tell you something. But what? Keep yourself safe, eliminate possible problems one at a time - and keep us posted! PB 
____________________ Always forgive your enemies. It's good for you - and really messes with their heads! |
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30th, 2010 11:00 pm |
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4th Post |
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Lakota G.O.G Community Member
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Whatta, thank you for your thoughts. Yes, we've ridden w/a big laid back TW, but he really doesn't seem to care if he's w/another horse or not. I too thought about teeth, but he doesn't seem to mind the bit. When he's going forward at a walk or slow gait, he will readily soften to any bit pressure. Brenda, he will act this way right out of the box. He will always stand well to be mounted and doesn't show any fear of a rider about to mount up. We have found a little success with some lungeing while tacked, and then riding in the corral to calm him down. We think he's at a loss when he's out of the security of the confined space, however he won't put any trust in another horse or his rider. He is a very lean narrow horse and short backed. I've pressed on his back muscles after a ride and he shows no signs of being sore. We took him on trails once since he came here, and he did lock up a couple times but with the trees on each side of the path he came out of it pretty quickly and followed the other horse. At this point, I'm thinking about just riding trails for now and if he can get real good there, maybe he'll be better on the road. I dunno. Never had a horse like this.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 30th, 2010 11:13 pm |
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5th Post |
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whattarack Pasture Boss
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Oh, have you checked for a bean? I hear it can make some geldings impossible to ride.
____________________ A State Trooper pulls over a pickup on Highway 16 And says to the driver, 'Got any I..D ? ' . . and the driver replies 'Bout wut?' Being Offended is Optional. |
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31st, 2010 12:11 am |
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6th Post |
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GypsySusan G.O.G Community Member 
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I would take him back into the round pen for a couple of weeks of re-training - sounds like he lost his go-pedal. My 5yo is doing the same thing - all pain problems are not the issue. I've had a "trainer" ride him for 6 weeks and he continues to "lock up". He is better and was absolutely fabulous on a 5-hour trail ride but I had huge problems with him in the arena last week. I'll be "listening" real careful for answers and solutions here.
____________________ Susan http://www.gypsytrotters.com Phil 4:11-13, 19 Missouri Fox Trotters: To Ride One... Is to Own One. |
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31st, 2010 12:58 am |
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7th Post |
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Gaitinlady G.O.G Community Member 
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How was he trained originally? This is kinda way out there, but when they originally trained him was it like some of the walkers where when you tighten your hold on the reins it means to speed up and when you slack up on them that is the signal to stop? Maybe that's why he locks up, he doesn't understand why you want him to go when to him the cue of slacking the reins means slow down and stop. The next time he stops maybe tighten the reins for more pressure and squeeze with your legs.
____________________ "A horse is a horse is a horse of course of course unless your horse is g a i t e d......." |
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31st, 2010 03:03 am |
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8th Post |
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Lakota G.O.G Community Member
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Whatta, that's something I never would have thought of. However, just last night I did see him urinating a nice healthy looking stream. I'll hand check him anyway. Gaitinlady, now that is a very good thought! The previous owner had him since he was 6 months old. He broke him to saddle himself with a mechanical hackamore & then sent him to a Paso trainer that did 'show' training. He made the comment that he felt they screwed up his horse. It's very possible that something like that is what's going on. Thank you, I now have a new avenue to investigate.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31st, 2010 03:47 am |
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9th Post |
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SunnysMum G.O.G Community Member 
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In most cases I've found the pasos that are "show" trained have that Mexican style training. Which is very different from the way most of us Westerners and English types are taught to ride. Speaking on expearince here, we had at the old ranch a Mexican trained Welsh and she was doing the same thing, and had been broke for mexican style dancing etc. So it could be he was trained that way, and is just getting confused. Maybe the way you are sitting then at that moment and hold the reins is telling him to back up and turn. The slightest shift of weight means something to those types that are trained that way.
____________________ Chi ha tegoli di vetro, non tiri sassi al vicino |
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31st, 2010 03:48 am |
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10th Post |
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crs trail rider Ranch Hand 
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Heres a totally different approach - and I dont know if it would work or not- but given what you wrote- it might be worth a try. I am using it to get Jenny to settle down as I am teaching her to open gates- she gets really worked up and refuses to listen- almost a panic attack. Its working but its a slow process. As long as you are in a safe place- when he locks up can you just let him stand there until he relaxes on his own? Maybe keep talking to him reassuring him- whatever verbal cue you have used in the past to keep him calm or calm him down when exposed to something new. When you feel him relax then ask for one step forward. If he remains relaxed ask for another and if he locks up again just let him stand there. He is trying to tell you something. May not be pain. There are trainers out there that will ride the crap out of a horse and then tie them for hours w/out water- still tacked up. So they can "think" about their ride. Maybe he is having flash backs- esp if he is balking as he comes back to the barn. They remember more than we sometimes give them credit for.
____________________ Its rarely the horses fault- Its usually a failure of the rider to communicate their requests in a manner that the horse can understand. Lisa |
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31st, 2010 04:18 pm |
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11th Post |
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Lakota G.O.G Community Member
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Hey ya, good thoughts. I know how those show horses go, with just the slightest wieght shift or cue so's you can't tell. Not what we trail riders need. CRS, I have done this & probably should go back to it. I felt that he just might be so smart that he's trying to avoid work with anything he can think of. I know though that sooner or later he will get tired of standing in the road doing nothing. Now if I have the patience to wait & wait & wait & wait........ 
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31st, 2010 04:51 pm |
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12th Post |
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crs trail rider Ranch Hand
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Lakota- it is a slooooowwwww process. Definately not a quick fix. I had one that would do that at the worst moments and I would turn and back her through it. Sounds weird but she would always back up. So we would turn around and back through the mud puddle, or whatever had her in a NO mode. Eventually she would balk I would start to ask for her to turn around and she would just give up and walk through it, and then she just stopped balking all together. But she was a great backer- could back through the weirdest patterns. But if he balks at backing you could have a worse problem (rearing) so I dont recommend that. I have ridden them circles and circles and circles until we were both dizzy then they moved forward readily after that. But that only works if you have the space and time to do it and they havent "frozen up" just refused to move forward. Also- really look at where he is locking up- there may be an external reason esp if it near or at the same place every time. Dead animal- or dangerous animal nearby. Or just different strange animal (a beaver made my horse suddenly freak out at one bridge that she always willingly crossed before which resulted in her freaking out over all bridges for a short time) One other time another horse thought something looked like a black snake and REFUSED to go forward - again somewhere we always went - I didnt realize why she was acting "stupid" until I finally got her to cross and she was "snorting at it and giving it a sideways look. Then I REALLY looked at it and yep it looked like it could have been a really big black snake. (it was a type of landscaping material )
____________________ Its rarely the horses fault- Its usually a failure of the rider to communicate their requests in a manner that the horse can understand. Lisa |
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| Posted: Thu Sep 2nd, 2010 01:39 am |
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13th Post |
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TessieBAgain G.O.G Community Member 
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Once you have determined this horse has no pain issues go back to the basics. Get your ground work in place and go from there. Pasos are emotional horses who do not appreciate a heavy hand. You have to be really proactive with these horses. Keep him busy under saddle. Become instinctive at reading his mood and get real busy when you think he is going to balk. Don't smack him around, give him a job to do and make him do it. When you feel him relax ease up on your request. Eventually he'll learn that your way means less work. Remember, those studly hormones will take several months to wane to the point he will be considered a gelding. So, take your time with him, wear your helmet, and be safe!
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14th, 2010 04:13 am |
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14th Post |
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Lakota G.O.G Community Member
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Well, we're still guessing with this horse. I had a real good trail ride Labor Day. Went out a second time & he got stupid on me. Determined he was sore from the tailhead to just above the hocks. I know he was rode too long & may have acted up b/c of that. Rode at the barn last night & he was so tense and jittery. I just sat on him 'til he relaxed some, then asked for a step. Right back to tight muscles & shaking. Wait on him again & repeat. Really not much improvement, got him to walk a few steps. Took what I got & quit on a good note I guess. The owner has started him on a calming supplement a couple days ago. Been thinking about an animal communicator. I remember reading some posts about that a long time ago. Maybe they could discover why he acts this way... Do any of you know of one you might reccomend? I've decided this is a good horse that has a problem & he's not just being a stupid butt.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14th, 2010 04:22 am |
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15th Post |
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Gaitinlady G.O.G Community Member
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The way it is sounding there has to be some kind of pain issue. Have you had blood drawn and analyzed. I know someone who had a gaited that had some imbalances and the only way they found them was to do a draw showing electrolytes, potassium, and other levels in the body. Maybe something is outta wack.
____________________ "A horse is a horse is a horse of course of course unless your horse is g a i t e d......." |
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14th, 2010 05:57 am |
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16th Post |
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Lakota G.O.G Community Member
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I have not had a vet look at him as I do not own this horse. I don't believe this is a pain issue. I rode him too long on L/D and he was sore, but he does his thing when he is not sore so...... Something is going on here. He does not act like he's got any pain but something is causing him great concern. Now, if I could just speak Equus or he could speak English. We're both tryin'! I'd be curious to know more about what that horses problem was and what the symptoms/behavior was. Last edited on Tue Sep 14th, 2010 05:59 am by Lakota |
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14th, 2010 06:28 am |
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17th Post |
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slipslider G.O.G Community Member 
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Lokata I am curious as well, your story of your horse reminded me of a lady I ran into one day whose daughter was riding a paso at the time. She was telling me about a real nice riding horse she had but that it had one problem and the problem the horse had sounded very similar to what you are describing with your horse, except I believe this one was a mare. I remember it so well, because every suggestion I could think of they had tried, even a trainer and to no avail. It was very perplexing and I could not imagine what was causing this horse to behave this way. It too would balk and many times it did so when heading home, nothing they did could get that horse to move. They could get down and lead it home, but who wants to do that miles from home. They finally relinquished the mare to pasture I believe, but love this horse because she was a great riding horse, if u can call one that does this kind of thing. May have done fine when showing in the ring, cannot remember. Talking about an animal communicator, I remember seeing on TV once about a horse that had a problem in the riding arena especially in a sandy one. They were teaching this horse dressage and the horse at times became very antsy and uncontrollable. The owners could not figure out what his problem was or why he behaved this way. Some days he did fine and on others he would act scared to death. They had owned this horse all his life, so they could not figure it out. The communicator then described to them what the horse was telling her. She said that he had been in a pasture and there was a fire when he was young that had frightened him very bad. On some days when he entered the arena and especially the sandy one, the sand would become quite warm which triggered his memory of the fire around and beneath his hooves as a grass fire would do. The communicator then gave advice to the owners of how to help him overcome this and I believe also tried to convey to the horse that he no longer had anything to worry about. The owners then remembered the fire, it was a small one and no one was hurt so they had forgotten all about it. But that horse had not. Don't know how it turned out but thought it was very interesting. If I had the money there have been times I would love to have tried this, especially if I knew of a good one that I could trust. I know some are very skeptical of such things, but I tend to have a very open mind. After all it was not long ago that people laughed at the thought of a chiropractor for animals and now we know how much good one can do. Please keep us posted as how things turn out. Much luck.
____________________ LaVonne Summertime Stables, LLC |
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| Posted: Fri Sep 24th, 2010 05:27 am |
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18th Post |
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Lakota G.O.G Community Member
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Well guys, I've been making small steps of progress with this horse. We have turned the corner here & I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. He's not perfect but he is getting better. Mostly he had trust issues that I attribute to the stressful 'show' training he went through. He is getting to know me better and learning to trust me. What has worked well for us is when he balks I just wait on him. He's learning. Some of these Paso's are sooo sensitive it makes life rather interesting for a while. I really really have to thank Sunny's Mum for her tremendous insight into this situation. She's been very helpful and has a gift, that's for sure. Thanks to all of you that put your thoughts to this, I appreciate it very much.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 24th, 2010 05:49 am |
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19th Post |
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slipslider G.O.G Community Member
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Glad to hear you are making progress. Waiting on him was a very good idea and not one I would have thought of but makes perfect sense. tu1
____________________ LaVonne Summertime Stables, LLC |
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11th, 2010 06:42 am |
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20th Post |
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MelissaF G.O.G Community Member
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Hello, I had a horse like this many years ago but he was a ditz both from the ground and when being ridden just a bad apple.That doesn't sound like it's necessarily the case here.It sounds like he's trying to tell you something.But what? Keep yourself safe,eliminate possible problems one at a time and keep us posted. . Regards, Ali.
____________________ Ingrown hair treatment |
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